All-Time Indian Test XI

Taking a break from kiwi cricket, Cricinfo's recent selection of the best Indian all-time XI as voted by their jury made me revisit a discussion I had online with two equally cricket-mad friends, PK and SG. This happened about a year ago, and I am simply reproducing the text from the mail-chain here. Further discussion is welcome in the comments section. It so turned out that the XI we arrived at had six choices in common with Cricinfo's.

PK (Initiating the thread): Fill these up:
An all Indian team against Mars .. or Pakistan .. whichever way ...

1.V.Sehwag
2.SM. Gavaskar (player , not commentator)
3.R.Dravid
4.S.R.Tendulkar
5.?
6.?
7.Kapil Dev
8.?
9.A.Kumble
10.BS. Bedi
11.M.Nissar (? couldn't think of anyone else for sheer speed).

Yours Truly: Okay, each position for me requires a specific kind of role. Number 8, quite obviously should be a wicketkeeper, unless we can find a wicketkeeper of the Alec Stewart or Andy Flower type good enough to bat at number 6 (That would really be good for the balance of the side, for we would be able to play Kapil as allrounder in addition to four specialist bowlers). However, I can't think of a wicketkeeper good enough to fill that spot - except for Budhi Kunderan maybe, Farokh Engineer a bit iffy - so for me it's between Kirmani and Mongia for number 8. While I am tempted to fill in Mongia, excellent keeper and capable of opening the batting (swapping places with Viru if he's out of form and fancies the middle order), I would go for Kiri because of his expertise in keeping to the spin quartet (I have no doubt he would have been adept with Kumble as well), and also because he seemed to specialise in those cheeky lower-order contributions which Mongia didn't always provide when needed.

At number five I'd probably have an 'artist'. Three names come to mind instantly come to mind - GRV, Azhar and Laxman. Although Vijay Manjrekar and Polly Umrigar might be considered, I don't know enough about them. Ganguly, perhaps not quite in their class although his captaincy might make him a bigger contender! Very hard to decide between the three, but I suppose Vishy would be my (sentimental) choice. A stylist, good player of West Indian pace, highly regarded among my dad's generation, and a thorough gentleman - something I personally like about the guy. Had the fortune of meeting him briefly once, turned out to be extremely down-to-earth. Azhar...very hard to omit, but he loses out because of his being susceptible to the short stuff. Laxman, might replace GRV on another day. Almost nothing to chose between them.

By way of contrast, I'd want a man of steel at number six. From way back, Vijay Hazare might make the cut. My shortlist would be Vengsarkar and Jimmy (Mohinder) Amarnath. Despite Vengsarkar's fine record in the 80s, I'd go for Jimmy because of his Kumble-esque bloody-mindedness. There might have been naturally good players of pace around, but this guy actually reinvented himself as a number three who fearlessly stood up to the Windies and Imran Khan at their peak. [The alternative would be to choose Vinoo Mankad as allrounder, who would then improve the balance of the side giving the extra spin option, and again the reserve opener in case Viru has the jitters. But then again, Viru and Jimmy would provide more then adequate back-up bowling, no?]

Have some comments to make on the bowlers, and the possible list of reserves. But will keep that for later. What are your thoughts?

PK: Nothing to say on Kiri .. I have no idea of the other keepers..GRV is fine, but VVS would be MY sentimental pick (If allowed)

It seems you have followed the "If you dont have a 6 , take two 3's" policy. Wasn't Jimmy a #3 ? Or was that too high? Viru is the true pie chucker in the team man .. I cannot imagine how each one of his loopy slow off spinners get wickets :))

YT: Well, Jimmy started out as a lower-middle order bat who gradually moved up. Yes, he did make a name for himself at three, but played quite often in the middle order. I can't think of a genuine number six - Laxman or Azhar perhaps, but they don't fit the role I outlined. Would you pick Vengsarkar instead, or maybe TWO out of Vishy/Azhar/VVS for #5 and #6?

Nothing to say on Kiri - meaning you're OK with him? What about Dhoni himself - would his skills be surplus to this side?

Nissar, yup, we need speed; but how about Srinath? At his peak he deserved to be rated 'fast' as opposed to 'fast medium'. Gave all those batsmen abroad a rough time and somehow didn't end up picking up enough wickets. Problem with him was he was a 'nice guy' when he needed to be a Ganguly-type badass.

Agree with Kumble, although Chandra and Prasanna will always have their followers. Enough said on his selection, though I don't know if SG may have a difference of opinion.

PK: Nothing to say means I dont know enough. Dhoni, well, he does not even have 2500 test runs .. or 150 dismissals yet ..

VVS may be sentimental pick, but we are playing Pakistan / Mars .. not Australia .

Vengsarkar has 6k runs or so, hence I think he would be a good pick... plus he has a moustache!

Srinath...man...if only someody told him during the early years that pitching it up a yard would get him at least 100 more than his 230-plus wickets! And yes...too nice also ..

Kumble - untouchable. And if nothing else, an expert "container". Kumble is Chandra v 2.0 and improved man, plus .. he did re-invent himself too.

SG: Hola,

About the composition of the side, I am not a big fan of 4 bowlers plus Kapil Dev. Me thinks 3 + KDN should do the job.

Think of all the great teams -> Invincibles (Lindwall, Toshack, Johnston, Miller), WI 80s (Roberts, Marshall, Holding, Garner ), Aus 95-2000s (McGrath, Gillespie/Fleming, Lee, Warne/McGill)

Also usual arguments of if you pick 5 bowlers one will be under bowled, if 4 can’t do it 5 can’t either etc etc

So for me number 11 is the only contention amongst the bowlers.

I like variety in the bowling, so far a right arm swinger, a leggie and a left arm orthodox. A left armer would be perfect. But has Zak done enough? He will eventually overtake Srinath and should eventually take 350 wickets. He’s matured superbly (unlike Srinath) and can swing new or old ball. He can bowl in the subcontinent which is a huge plus. Quick check of the stats show both are almost identical with Srinath having a very slight edge. I’m not sure about argument that Srinath would’ve been better had be pitched it up a yard etc etc

So for me No. 11 is Zak and not Mohd Nissar

So that opens up 2 batting spots and a WK

WK first – since this is a batting heavy line up I would do sensible thing and pick a specialist so MSD doesn’t make the cut. I think it’s commonly accepted that kiri and mongia were our best. I’d plump for kiri on greater batting ability and pluck. The only thing is MSD has a greater dismissals per innings ratio than the other two. Perhaps this is because of better bowling (especially overseas)? Also his keeping has generally improved since his start .I say this position should be up for review by the time MSD retires.

Number 5 now. It has to be GRV. And not purely for sentimental reasons. I think we was 2nd to be admitted to the pantheon after SMG and before SRT , RSD and VS. He was India’s 2nd best bat by far in the 70’s and he could play serious pace. Every Indian team needs a stylist and GRV is that for this team. Only serious contenders for this spot are VSS and Azhar. The similarities in these 3 players is amazing. But Azhar against extreme pace pushes him out. I can’t really find a reason to kick VVS out expect he’s sometimes vulnerable with his feet against the moving ball. If GRV was great against WI, VVS played the Aussies really well.

Number – 6. Every batsman so far is a right hander. Is there enough merit in picking a leftie just for the sake of variety? SCG is a very very tempting pick. He could be captain too. But who are his contenders? – jimmy, vengsarkar, mak pataudi, jaisimha and perhaps ck nayudu? What I find quite astonishing is that SCG seems to have the best of all these and he still is the only leftie amongst them. Let me explain –

Jimmy and SCG share that bloody mindedness. Especially wrt the ability to play the short ball. Looking at raina the other day I think SCG getting to 7k test runs with a serious short ball disability is testament to his never give up attitude.

Vengsarkar loved to play in England. He loved lords and could play swing and seam with ease. He hit 4 hundreds for 960 runs at 48 avg. What about SCG? 3 hundreds for 915 at 65 avg!! And 8 wickets too!

Sambit believes mak was India’s best captain ever. Till SCG came along that is. Both instilled a generational change in the way we played our cricket. Both were respected and even feared. The obvious difference is the fielding. Mak was a tiger on the field and well..we all know about SCG…

Jaisimha like all those from Hyderabad – abbas ali baig, azhar and VVS was a stylist. Silk shirt, raised collar et al. and he could play. And who can forget Brisbane 68? Off the plane and went straight on to make a fifty and hundred. But no one drives better SCG. Arguably the second most attractive batter in the fab 5.

While I cannot really make a practical comparison between ck and SCG, what I love about gangools was that he was almost always a fluent player. If others got bogged down, he would continue to score. Keep the score moving at a fair clip. VVS is also a lot like this but there have been times when RSD and SRT have got absolutely STUCK. Gangools would hit the ball in unusual areas and generally get on with the game. Gangools like Ck loved hitting sixes too.

So I guess that’s it here is my team in order -

V Sehwag
SM Gavaskar(vc)
RS Dravid
SR Tendulkar
GR Vishwanath
SC Ganguly(c)
Kapil Dev
SMH Kirmani(wk)
A Kumble
Z Khan
BS Bedi

Let me know what you guys think. In detail please.

YT: I take Jimmy's selection back and admit that Gangools should be in - also because he slots so perfectly into the role of the skipper. In the previous XI, we had no serious contenders. Gavaskar? Selfish bastard (or so we hear). Kapil? Leads purely by instinct, and his long-running feud with SMG would also make him a dangerous proposition. Kumble? Not enough evidence to support his case, and historically bowlers have never made good captains.Bedi? Too caustic. Dravid? Too sensitive and reluctant.

I think leading such a plethora of personalities would have brought out the best in SCG.

PK: Yeah .. fair cop about great teams having 4 .. but all those great teams .. their number one bowlers had averages in the ELITE bracker (sub 24s). The bowling attack here , I dont think other than probably Nissar anyone here has an avg less than 27.

No arguments about GRV. Suhas was also saying that .too

Gangools is about border line I guess ..

The problem with choosing Indian team is, it's not statistically clear. For most other countries, the statistical differences are so marked there wont be much confusion.

Kirmani's batting I dont know much about. But if he does not have at least 25 avg then SMHK, AK, ZK, BSB is quite a tail. And Kapil's batting is Afridi-esque.

PK: And I also have no idea of Brisbane 50 off the plane .. the only 50 I know of on a plane is DC Boon's 52 not out!